tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3471471289744825428.post3376074889037812052..comments2024-03-11T00:31:41.186-07:00Comments on The Oregon Economics Blog: Economist's Notebook: Subsidizing Pro SportsPatrick Emersonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17242234148546323374noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3471471289744825428.post-39117808144955216172013-01-07T17:12:52.776-08:002013-01-07T17:12:52.776-08:00We have this same situation going on in Atlanta wi...We have this same situation going on in Atlanta with the Georgia Dome right now. Secrets, lies, and of course, the "sweetheart deals" you spoke of have all been circulating. It's hard to imagine that the monied interests won't win...that just seems to be the usual outcome.<br /><br />Phil @ <a href="http://pennystocksforbigbucks.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow">http://pennystocksforbigbucks.blogspot.com</a>Ninja Trader Guyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13892470088723542475noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3471471289744825428.post-35515071492490838452013-01-02T14:29:06.069-08:002013-01-02T14:29:06.069-08:00If you want a case in which a politician was voted...If you want a case in which a politician was voted out of office over a stadium deal, look to Milwaukee's Miller Park. A State Senator lost a recall bid launched when he broke ranks with the GOP and voted for the stadium. His own party supported another candidate in the primary.<br />The Democrats took the seat.sales6@mftfence.comhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10792456449680969676noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3471471289744825428.post-55240087465397329062012-12-16T15:56:21.650-08:002012-12-16T15:56:21.650-08:00There are some senses in which NFL teams are local...There are some senses in which NFL teams are local monopolies, but there have been plenty of competing leagues that have tried and failed. I think what is probably the fact is that these are natural monopolies - most cities could not support two teams. And in this sense I don't think the distinction is very different at all - the same is definitely true for symphonies. <br /><br />But I think you misunderstand: these two things have social returns that people understand and respond to. I was only suggesting that the media hype about public subsidies of sports seems focused on the millionaire owner angle and misses the obvious fact that communities want them. <br /><br />We could get into a whole other realm of non-profit local monopolies that receive lots of public support: college sports but that is a whole other discussion.<br /><br />Patrick Emersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17242234148546323374noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3471471289744825428.post-35048143106891655032012-12-16T13:31:14.982-08:002012-12-16T13:31:14.982-08:00A bad analogy, Patrick. It's not incidental t...A bad analogy, Patrick. It's not incidental that arts orgs are not private--it's critical to the distinction. The public is more willing to let money leave their pocket if it's not going into the pocket of very rich owner. <br /><br />But more centrally, arts orgs don't exist in a protected monopoly with limited members. The reason NFL owners can extort their fans is because of the monopoly. Open the NFL up to all cities in the manner all cities have symphonies, and the balance of power would very quickly shift. How on earth can you say the "market" has spoken? There's absolutely no market here. <br /><br />Weirdly, I think you're making a cultural argument about the value of professional sports in the public sphere--more the province of humanities types you normally eschew. I agree on this point--arts, sports, they're all professionals worthy of our support. But it seems like an incredible argument to be placing in the context of markets, when the two couldn't have more different structures.Jeff Alworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02930119177544342495noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3471471289744825428.post-27103775853635503472012-12-14T10:35:09.840-08:002012-12-14T10:35:09.840-08:00I'm not sure I think these deals are important...I'm not sure I think these deals are important enough to strongly impact re-election chances, or at least I'd want to see evidence of that. The other thing is that it's not like the same group is experiencing a lot of this - separate locations, say each location gets a stadium deal every 10-15 years (across sports). The public has a short memory about some things...<br /><br />The other part is that even if politicians are rational self-promoters, I don't want to assume they have accurate knowledge of how these deals impact re-election. You can look at a broad level, but I am skeptical there's much polling at the metropolitan level on this question.<br /><br />Apologies for the typo in the last comment. Dennishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05685035273589091992noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3471471289744825428.post-9178780961219553772012-12-14T10:29:03.648-08:002012-12-14T10:29:03.648-08:00It's a good point and yes, that is essentially...It's a good point and yes, that is essentially my take. If this were an isolated phenomenon or one that happened only just recently then I think there is an argument to make that democracy has not had time to act. <br /><br />But my view of politicians are that they are rational self-propmoters and are unlikely to make these deals if they think it severely damages their re-election chances. I think, given the ubiquity of these deals, that the opposite is more likely true.<br /><br />But I called the post 'economist's notebook' for a reason: these are my off the cuff thoughts. Plus I am a bug sports fan myself, so I look forward to being disabused of my wayward beliefs.Patrick Emersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17242234148546323374noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3471471289744825428.post-62424929969464625792012-12-14T10:24:39.219-08:002012-12-14T10:24:39.219-08:00What about public officials making sweetheart deal...What about public officials making sweetheart deals for reasons unrelated to the public good? <br /><br />I don't think you can make a reveal preference argument when it comes to decisions made without a vote. A counter premised on the claim that such public officials would be voted out of office presumes this issue is more important than others.Dennishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05685035273589091992noreply@blogger.com